Who should forgive? God or us?

[GreatestIam]

Who should forgive? God or us?

Much has been written on repentance and how one must seek forgiveness and repent to gain heaven.

Sin should always has a victim or someone hurt, if you will, by the sin.

It is healthy for a victim to eventually have closure on the issue and forgive.
It is also morally healthy for the sinner to repent and seek forgiveness.

If both the sinner and victim see this and the victim forgives and the sinner repents to the victim, then what does God have to do with the issue?
He is a third party and irrelevant of the particular sin in question.
God was not sinned against and even if you think He is somehow offended then it is His problem for taking offence because one human sinned against another human.

Whose forgiveness is more important?
God’s or the victims?

If the victim does not choose to forgive, does God have any business usurping this benefit from the victim?

If a sinner is forgiven by his victim but is a non believer, does God still hold this, now forgiven sin, against the non believer who, for all we know, has no other sins?

That would seem to be unjust.

Further, Jesus says, only through me, as the path to heaven. This seems to retire the Father and Holy spirit and make them irrelevant to us. This is strange in light of Jesus’ words that say no one is good except God the Father.

Thoughts.

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

Just to register.

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

God forgave us while we were yet enemies. That is true agape love. There is no emotional attatchment, but just the fact that He bears no malice is true love. We were not repented, confessed and asking for forgiveness. His true love is accompanied by propitiation. The sacrifice of Jesus allowed God to turn from His righteous anger and face us in relationship. The sacrifice of Jesus provided reconciliation, whereby, mankind is able to turn and face God.





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Really!


God rejected the vicarious atonement of Jesus as it would be immoral to offer it or accept it.

Why have you forsaken me is answered with this .

Pro 21:3 To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Psa 49:7 None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:


As to the idea of blood sacrifice----

Are you willing to look up these and comment on our salvation without the blood or Jesus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp9XIh-BPio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

It is not just that we don't deserve being forgiven. It was not even an afterthought of God but the whole reason the whole universe was even created! For in the fullness of time Christ would come to become the savior of the World. God bound all men over to sin, this was his plan from the ages and God's wisdom is always perfect. That he created a man gave him free will, and knowing when he put him in a perfect world a perfect place being a perfect man would sin and grace would be the effect before man was created and was the overflow of grace afterwards for in this story of God - is the glory by which Christ is awarded and given that he the Only Begotten Son is worthy of having, and this was the reason we were saved by grace and filled with His fullness that we may be producers of a glory for Christ - This the Father did for the Son because He loved Him, because the Son is exact representation of God,He is the LOVE that we know, He came from the Father full of grace and truth. WHY - because Christ loved the Father to the point of animonity that is He muted himself out of His great love for the Father and so when He brings in the Firstborn he commands all the angels to worship, both heavenly and earthly that all may honor the Son as they honor the Father who sent Him.

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Eh, you mean he sent himself don't you?

Oh wait, your monotheistic, meaning one God only, religion has more than one God.

As to how you read scripture, do you truly believe in Satan, angels, demons, talking animals and a water walking immortal God who can somehow die?

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

God does not simply overlook our sin and say, “You’re forgiven.” God sees our sin but is ready to forgive us because Jesus fully took OUR sin on Himself and paid for our sin by His death on the cross. Our sin is serious and it cost Jesus incredible suffering. But from the moment we received Christ into our lives, His forgiveness is ours. We can’t ever make up for our own sin or suffer enough for it – nor does God want us to. “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” Romans 5:8.


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Then ther is no longer a hell or a need for it.

Right?


To my way of thinking, God rejected the vicarious atonement of Jesus as it would be immoral to offer it or accept it.

Why have you forsaken me is answered with this .

Pro 21:3 To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Psa 49:7 None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:


As to the idea of blood sacrifice----

Are you willing to look up these and comment on our salvation without the blood or Jesus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp9XIh-BPio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

I thank our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful.
He appoints us as His messengers and puts us into His service so we might be ministers, teachers, comforters, helpers: whatever He has chosen for us. We need not force ourselves into His service, for He has chosen us for His appointment. We need not worry about results, either, as long as we remain steadfast to His Presence and principles.

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Thanks for not preaching your dogmatic B S.

Regards
DL