Is God’s Love conditional or unconditional?

[GreatestIam]

Is God’s Love conditional or unconditional?

The existence of hell seems to indicate quite clearly that God hates some of us and that that hate negates unconditional love by setting a condition that if we do not do exactly as commanded, that love is withdrawn.

Even if there is no hell, any king of eternal punishment goes against unconditional love.

Some think that when we sin, we sin against God as well as the victim here on earth. Unconditional love should always forgive regardless of the sin as far as God would be concerned.

Conditional love would say that the sinner must repent.

The problem is the unrepentant sinner.
When meeting God for judgment, if the sinner cannot see why he should repent or if he feels that whatever issue at hand is not a sin, does God’s unconditional love apply or is it cast aside somehow so that God can have the option of punishment?

This may never happen as God is said to have omnipotent persuasive powers but of this I am not sure and you may want to correct me on this because God, it seems, could not convince Satan to do His bidding.

Is God’s love then unconditional and no hell is required because we are all forgiven thanks to that love?

Or

Is God’s love conditional and there is a hell for those who do not do as commanded and repent?

Regards
DL

[NFQ]

What do you mean when you say "love"? When some people say it, they include things like "tough love." I can easily imagine a believer in God, heaven, and hell finding a way to rationalize a loving God sending his creations to hell because they deserve it somehow, and it's "best for them." After all, Christians believe that their loving God killed his own son. Punishing those you love is not necessarily ruled out.

I think it's against any common sense definition of the word "love" to try to include in it any kind of infinite torment or infinite sorrow. But as an atheist, I realize that the things I consider to be "common sense" are not as common as one might suppose.

That aside -- if you think that being sent hell displays a lack of God's love, and there are some conditions one must live by in order to avoid being sent to hell, then clearly it is conditional. Requiring repentance is a condition.

Of course, you can resolve this quasi-paradox by acknowledging that God probably doesn't exist anyway.

[dattaswami]

Conditional Love Vs Unconditional Love

The devotion is of two types, conditional and unconditional. The former is bound by area and time. Within the limits of certain area only God is honored. If God crosses those limits God is rejected. Therefore, for the devotee the limits of the area happen to be God, since those limits are ultimate for the devotee. God also follows the same rule and cannot help the devotee beyond those limits. In such case God follows the strict rules of the cycle of deeds (Karma Chakra) and acts according to justice and injustice.

At the maximum, God may do some rearrangements like pre-poning of good fruits with reduced value and post-poning bad fruits with increased interest.

In this case God will not transfer your sins on to Him because the conditional devotion is basically unreal. In the conditional devotion since the boundary of the area is ultimate God, God is no more God. Therefore, the approach to God is false devotion. It is time bound since the devotion comes only in difficult times. The unconditional devotion is not limited by area and time. The devotion is real crossing all the limits of areas and time.

The Lord is the writer of the constitution and He knows whom to punish. Some times you see punishment of innocent person. You think that the injustice is ruling. In the kingdom of God only the justice is the ruler by the grace of God. When the innocent is punished, the punishment was of some bad deed done by him previously and the date of the punishment coincided with the present incident accidentally.

The Lord will react in the same way as we act (Ye Yatha Mam…Gita). If our devotion is one kg of Gold, He will pay us its cost. If our devotion is hundred grams gold, He will pay us one tenth of the cost of the gold. But if our devotion is only bronze, even if it is one kg the cost of gold cannot be paid. Bronze is glittering like gold and it will have its own payment. The time bound devotion is totally unreal. We are using God only in difficulties as we use the fan in summer.

In the winter fan is not needed. Of course, we use the fan in winter also for few minutes so that it will not corrode. Similarly, we pray God for a little time in the days of happiness also so that the touch with God is maintained. The intensity of the devotion in the times of happiness is definitely different from that in bad times. The devotion of Prahlada and Gopikas (Great Devotee of God)was having the same intensity in all the times. In such case only God suffers for the sake of devotee. All the suffering of Prahlada was taken by Lord and therefore Prahlada was always smiling during the torture.

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

[GreatestIam]

What do you mean when you say "love"? When some people say it, they include things like "tough love." I can easily imagine a believer in God, heaven, and hell finding a way to rationalize a loving God sending his creations to hell because they deserve it somehow, and it's "best for them." After all, Christians believe that their loving God killed his own son. Punishing those you love is not necessarily ruled out.

I think it's against any common sense definition of the word "love" to try to include in it any kind of infinite torment or infinite sorrow. But as an atheist, I realize that the things I consider to be "common sense" are not as common as one might suppose.

That aside -- if you think that being sent hell displays a lack of God's love, and there are some conditions one must live by in order to avoid being sent to hell, then clearly it is conditional. Requiring repentance is a condition.

Of course, you can resolve this quasi-paradox by acknowledging that God probably doesn't exist anyway.

We agree. Conditional if we want to believe in a fantasy God.
I also agree that believers will juggle facts to please their impossible dogma.

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

Conditional Love Vs Unconditional Love

The devotion is of two types, conditional and unconditional. The former is bound by area and time. Within the limits of certain area only God is honored. If God crosses those limits God is rejected. Therefore, for the devotee the limits of the area happen to be God, since those limits are ultimate for the devotee. God also follows the same rule and cannot help the devotee beyond those limits. In such case God follows the strict rules of the cycle of deeds (Karma Chakra) and acts according to justice and injustice.

At the maximum, God may do some rearrangements like pre-poning of good fruits with reduced value and post-poning bad fruits with increased interest.

In this case God will not transfer your sins on to Him because the conditional devotion is basically unreal. In the conditional devotion since the boundary of the area is ultimate God, God is no more God. Therefore, the approach to God is false devotion. It is time bound since the devotion comes only in difficult times. The unconditional devotion is not limited by area and time. The devotion is real crossing all the limits of areas and time.

The Lord is the writer of the constitution and He knows whom to punish. Some times you see punishment of innocent person. You think that the injustice is ruling. In the kingdom of God only the justice is the ruler by the grace of God. When the innocent is punished, the punishment was of some bad deed done by him previously and the date of the punishment coincided with the present incident accidentally.

The Lord will react in the same way as we act (Ye Yatha Mam…Gita). If our devotion is one kg of Gold, He will pay us its cost. If our devotion is hundred grams gold, He will pay us one tenth of the cost of the gold. But if our devotion is only bronze, even if it is one kg the cost of gold cannot be paid. Bronze is glittering like gold and it will have its own payment. The time bound devotion is totally unreal. We are using God only in difficulties as we use the fan in summer.

In the winter fan is not needed. Of course, we use the fan in winter also for few minutes so that it will not corrode. Similarly, we pray God for a little time in the days of happiness also so that the touch with God is maintained. The intensity of the devotion in the times of happiness is definitely different from that in bad times. The devotion of Prahlada and Gopikas (Great Devotee of God)was having the same intensity in all the times. In such case only God suffers for the sake of devotee. All the suffering of Prahlada was taken by Lord and therefore Prahlada was always smiling during the torture.

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

http://www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

One vote for conditional as I ignore your reference to unconditional since you have stated the conditions.

To try to be more clear.

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

Sure, God loves all of us. He loves the believers, the nonbelievers, the Satanists, the Wiccans, the treehuggers, the bag ladies, etc.The problem is that he cannot allow sin in his presence. So... no matter how much he loves us, he cannot allow into heaven anyone who would taint it with ...

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Conditional love then. Thanks.

Strange that God cannot have evil in heaven yet that is where it was first discovered. Oops.
Strange also that God would also use what He cannot abide in Job's myth.

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

Unconditional love is a myth. Humans are naturally self-biased and we place all kinds of conditions on love. It is a deception to claim that God's love is unconditional. Some have tried to equate 'Grace' with Harris' "I'm O.K., You're O.K.". A misunderstanding of God's love has led people, for example, James Dobson, to conclude that God's love is unconditional. The terms are not scriptural as a previous poster has stated. Again, the question seems to restrict depth and definition thus obstructing meaningful discussion.


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To stop obstructing meaningful discussion of God, we would all have to scrap him and begin anew.

Those who seek God can find him.
Those who have found Him in a Bible or Word will never find Him.
They have settled for their false od.

Regards
DL

[GreatestIam]

A God who commands his children to love their enemies, in order to be like their Father in Heaven (Luke 6:35) is clearly a God who loves unconditionally. The various conditions this article mentions such as the act of 'believing' in John 3:16 are the conditions to enjoy and experience God's love. Actually I would not even use the word condition. I see it as deterrents coming in the way of God's unconditional love flowing into a person's life. God's love for his people doesn't change. As it says in Eph Chp 1, God has loved us before creation. It's when the eyes of a person is opened and he invites God into His life that the person can enjoy the goodness of God's love. God's love for the person was always there. By removing the deterrent, the person can enjoy God's love. This is very different from fulfilling conditions before God can start loving you. Hence, I would agree with the phrase God's love is unconditional.

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Then there can be no hell. Right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug

God would not create a hell for souls that He loves.
If defective, He would cure not torture forever in hell. Right?

If you do not agree then----

What a game for God to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place for eternal suffering.
Then create beings whom you love dearly and watch over.
And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into the place for eternal suffering and which to cling to and love in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

Regards
DL